Comments on: Company: Her e-mails prove she could handle ‘harassment’ http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/ Your daily dose of HR Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:43:13 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Brian Seybert http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-34191 Brian Seybert Thu, 26 Nov 2009 14:51:38 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-34191 I am truly amazed that people can make a judgment without actually knowing anything - My wife Susan Seybert never claimed to be a "prude", nor is she. Here are a couple points to ponder wise one. 1) If you send "racy" email to friends - how does that compare to a woman being verbally abused, having her breasts stared at and having a person at a company function use a sexually explicit with not only peers, but superiors attending. 2) Why was Mr. Marchand was not part of this trial? THe judge suppressed some damaging evidence because she could not "authenticate" that Mr. Marchand was the author, but both counsels admitted it was. Nor was the CEO of the company whose deposition was read, then his son, the president of the company turned around and called his own father a bumbling old man. 3) My wife has never had a performance review below "meets expectations" so for her being incompetent is laughable - the President of the company even said her work was "fine" on the stand the review was unfair. 4) There were so many different stories by the defense no one really could prove the others story. 5) The sexual harassment complaint filed with the company, to this day, has never been investigated and findings reported. Finally, this was not a "cash grab" or greed, it was never intended to be, sure we wanted the company, but we have settled on giving the true story of that has happened. A few emails was never a question here - unfortunately that seemed to be the part that was stuck in the mind of the jury because it was the last thing they heard before deliberations. I am truly amazed that people can make a judgment without actually knowing anything – My wife Susan Seybert never claimed to be a “prude”, nor is she. Here are a couple points to ponder wise one.
1) If you send “racy” email to friends – how does that compare to a woman being verbally abused, having her breasts stared at and having a person at a company function use a sexually explicit with not only peers, but superiors attending.
2) Why was Mr. Marchand was not part of this trial? THe judge suppressed some damaging evidence because she could not “authenticate” that Mr. Marchand was the author, but both counsels admitted it was. Nor was the CEO of the company whose deposition was read, then his son, the president of the company turned around and called his own father a bumbling old man.
3) My wife has never had a performance review below “meets expectations” so for her being incompetent is laughable – the President of the company even said her work was “fine” on the stand the review was unfair.
4) There were so many different stories by the defense no one really could prove the others story.
5) The sexual harassment complaint filed with the company, to this day, has never been investigated and findings reported.
Finally, this was not a “cash grab” or greed, it was never intended to be, sure we wanted the company, but we have settled on giving the true story of that has happened.
A few emails was never a question here – unfortunately that seemed to be the part that was stuck in the mind of the jury because it was the last thing they heard before deliberations.

]]> By: JCE http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-33276 JCE Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:48:54 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-33276 Well, then it's insane that those emails were allowed to entered as evidence at all. The only way they would be relevant is if she sent those emails to her superviser. Well, then it’s insane that those emails were allowed to entered as evidence at all. The only way they would be relevant is if she sent those emails to her superviser.

]]> By: Liz Loren http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-33245 Liz Loren Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:04:09 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-33245 I was in the audience during the trial writing a paper for school on harasssment in the workplace. I can probably answer most of your questions. The plaintiff did, in fact, send some emails of a sexual nature to employees of the company. However, those employees were all female and friends of the plaintiff. Noone has ever complained about the plaintiff's emails. The emails were shown to the courtroom and consisted of a nude santa on his stomach with a line saying something about a Chrismas present. The other was a cartoon of someone wearing a tie that said "@#$ You" on the front of it. This particular email was sent to the plaintiff from another employee. It was not forwarded by the plaintiff. None of the email receipients included the plaintiff's manager. I was in the audience during the trial writing a paper for school on harasssment in the workplace. I can probably answer most of your questions. The plaintiff did, in fact, send some emails of a sexual nature to employees of the company. However, those employees were all female and friends of the plaintiff. Noone has ever complained about the plaintiff’s emails. The emails were shown to the courtroom and consisted of a nude santa on his stomach with a line saying something about a Chrismas present. The other was a cartoon of someone wearing a tie that said “@#$ You” on the front of it. This particular email was sent to the plaintiff from another employee. It was not forwarded by the plaintiff. None of the email receipients included the plaintiff’s manager.

]]> By: JCE http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-33233 JCE Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:43:52 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-33233 I'd be very curious to know if anyone complained about her emails before she filed her lawsuit. I’d be very curious to know if anyone complained about her emails before she filed her lawsuit.

]]> By: JP Prichard http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-33232 JP Prichard Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:40:46 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-33232 Bringing up the character of the victim is a common defense. Not saying its right or wrong, the company, which is more than just the supervisor and now has liability created by one idiot, is defending itself. Does the tactic feel underhanded? Sure, but the company (and its employees, shareholders, customers, vendors, etc.) is the one that stands to (unfairly?) lose here. It would be different if the company were fostering the environment, failing to train, or intentionally flaunting the law. Its a dirty fight on both sides, so more power to them. The thing I'm not seeing anyone comment on is the two-wrongs-don't-make-a-right idea. Both the "victim" and the supervisor engaged in inappropriate activity, and should have both been disciplined accordingly, and in a manner proportional to the liability they created for the company (Supervisor has a higher legal standard to maintain). Bringing up the character of the victim is a common defense. Not saying its right or wrong, the company, which is more than just the supervisor and now has liability created by one idiot, is defending itself. Does the tactic feel underhanded? Sure, but the company (and its employees, shareholders, customers, vendors, etc.) is the one that stands to (unfairly?) lose here. It would be different if the company were fostering the environment, failing to train, or intentionally flaunting the law. Its a dirty fight on both sides, so more power to them.

The thing I’m not seeing anyone comment on is the two-wrongs-don’t-make-a-right idea. Both the “victim” and the supervisor engaged in inappropriate activity, and should have both been disciplined accordingly, and in a manner proportional to the liability they created for the company (Supervisor has a higher legal standard to maintain).

]]> By: Anna http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-33167 Anna Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:15:01 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-33167 The fact that she shared sexual jokes or sent emails is irrelevant. She could have been as crass as they come. She could have had affairs with every other man in her office. Her BOSS made innuendos towards her and that alone would make me uncomfortable around my boss from that point on. We know he supposedly stared at her breasts on 2 occassions. What we don't know is how often he made suggestive comments to her. Men, how would you feel if you had a female boss who made suggestive comments to you and was always looking at your crotch? A co-worker would be a different story because you could try to avoid them, but your boss? The fact that she shared sexual jokes or sent emails is irrelevant. She could have been as crass as they come. She could have had affairs with every other man in her office. Her BOSS made innuendos towards her and that alone would make me uncomfortable around my boss from that point on. We know he supposedly stared at her breasts on 2 occassions. What we don’t know is how often he made suggestive comments to her. Men, how would you feel if you had a female boss who made suggestive comments to you and was always looking at your crotch? A co-worker would be a different story because you could try to avoid them, but your boss?

]]> By: D Franklin http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-32632 D Franklin Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:24:38 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-32632 Interesting read see link: http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/09D1266P.pdf The boss made a vulgar comment with sexual inuendo at a company party. Her emails were par with his in vulgarity - questioning the 'reasonable person' standard. Further emails reveal her overall bantering and emails negative regarding multiple supervisors, company and co workers. Interesting case. Looks to me like she wants both ways - ok for her to parlay sexual inuendos, but when it was her boss, it was sexual harrassment. The kicker with this is technically, she IS protected! He should be held to that higher standard. And, of course, be fired -especially when you read the court case. Interesting read see link:
http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/09D1266P.pdf
The boss made a vulgar comment with sexual inuendo at a company party. Her emails were par with his in vulgarity – questioning the ‘reasonable person’ standard.
Further emails reveal her overall bantering and emails negative regarding multiple supervisors, company and co workers.
Interesting case. Looks to me like she wants both ways – ok for her to parlay sexual inuendos, but when it was her boss, it was sexual harrassment. The kicker with this is technically, she IS protected! He should be held to that higher standard. And, of course, be fired -especially when you read the court case.

]]> By: MMAN http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-32386 MMAN Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:12:49 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-32386 Before I could make a comment, I would like to see exactly what the emails she allegedly sent contained. Were they flirtatious, suggestive or even inviting? Before I could make a comment, I would like to see exactly what the emails she allegedly sent contained. Were they flirtatious, suggestive or even inviting?

]]> By: Joyce http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-32363 Joyce Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:25:41 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-32363 KC has hit the nail on the head. While innapropriate e-mails may be grounds for reprimand, it is most definately NOT an invitation for harassment. I personally do not share off color e-mails on company equipment, but I have a couple of coworkers I share jokes with on our private home computers through personal e-mail accounts. The fact is, these are two completely separate issues that should be dealt with individually. KC has hit the nail on the head. While innapropriate e-mails may be grounds for reprimand, it is most definately NOT an invitation for harassment. I personally do not share off color e-mails on company equipment, but I have a couple of coworkers I share jokes with on our private home computers through personal e-mail accounts.
The fact is, these are two completely separate issues that should be dealt with individually.

]]> By: KC http://www.hrmorning.com/company-her-e-mails-prove-she-could-handle-harassment/comment-page-1/#comment-32349 KC Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:30:50 +0000 http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=6081#comment-32349 The comparison is like saying a women asked to be raped because of the way she dressed. Harassment is not a joke. The comparison is like saying a women asked to be raped because of the way she dressed. Harassment is not a joke.

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