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	<title>Comments on: Court to decide limits on employee Web privacy</title>
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	<description>Your daily dose of HR</description>
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		<title>By: mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11626</link>
		<dc:creator>mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 20:13:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11626</guid>
		<description>To Carl:

Yup.  People make our job messy.  I personally think that anytime there&#039;s a symptom of a problem, its best to investigate and deal with it right away.  I don&#039;t mean firing people left and right, but identifying what their concerns are and communicating what is being done.  When co-workers have problems with each other, I will sit them down and mediate, but emphasize that the expectation is that they be try to work things out between each other first.

Hostile work environment where management is held liable is usually where management create it or condones it.  If this is a social site with no links with the company, then the company is responsible for ensuring that the employees follow the expected behavior towards co-workers established in company policies.  If this is a company sponsored website, then the company needs to ensure that the rules for the site are enforced, AND that employees treat each other in accordance with policies.

My experience is that most people start gossip, grumbling, and complaining to others when they feel that they are powerless and are hoping someone will hear them and SAVE them from the situation.  I encourage everyone to address their issues with the people they have issues with first and to be considerate and respectful when they do.  I encourage them to articulate what they like or respect about the other person first, and then state what they have concerns with and what it means to them.  I ask them to articulate what they would like to happen.  I have the other person repeat back what they heard to ensure clarity and then let the other side take a turn at the process.  In time, employees have adopted this process to talk to one another and don&#039;t have to involve me excpet in cases where emotions are high and there is a lot of distrust.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Carl:</p>
<p>Yup.  People make our job messy.  I personally think that anytime there&#8217;s a symptom of a problem, its best to investigate and deal with it right away.  I don&#8217;t mean firing people left and right, but identifying what their concerns are and communicating what is being done.  When co-workers have problems with each other, I will sit them down and mediate, but emphasize that the expectation is that they be try to work things out between each other first.</p>
<p>Hostile work environment where management is held liable is usually where management create it or condones it.  If this is a social site with no links with the company, then the company is responsible for ensuring that the employees follow the expected behavior towards co-workers established in company policies.  If this is a company sponsored website, then the company needs to ensure that the rules for the site are enforced, AND that employees treat each other in accordance with policies.</p>
<p>My experience is that most people start gossip, grumbling, and complaining to others when they feel that they are powerless and are hoping someone will hear them and SAVE them from the situation.  I encourage everyone to address their issues with the people they have issues with first and to be considerate and respectful when they do.  I encourage them to articulate what they like or respect about the other person first, and then state what they have concerns with and what it means to them.  I ask them to articulate what they would like to happen.  I have the other person repeat back what they heard to ensure clarity and then let the other side take a turn at the process.  In time, employees have adopted this process to talk to one another and don&#8217;t have to involve me excpet in cases where emotions are high and there is a lot of distrust.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Wiley</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11618</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 18:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11618</guid>
		<description>John and Mike,


You both make very good points. So what happens if someone who posted to the secure site at one time has a falling out with the other members of the group?  People are people and when it gets personal, folks will pull out all stops to strike back. It is when this information becomes more widely discussed that you can potentially get into a hostile work environment situation forcing the employer to act in a tangible manner. (I think) What are your thoughts to this scenario?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John and Mike,</p>
<p>You both make very good points. So what happens if someone who posted to the secure site at one time has a falling out with the other members of the group?  People are people and when it gets personal, folks will pull out all stops to strike back. It is when this information becomes more widely discussed that you can potentially get into a hostile work environment situation forcing the employer to act in a tangible manner. (I think) What are your thoughts to this scenario?</p>
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		<title>By: mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11611</link>
		<dc:creator>mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 18:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11611</guid>
		<description>To John:

&quot;And the employer is really screwed if they spoke truth, such as:
. my boss told me to use the expired mayonnaise anyways
. my boss ignores the cockroaches.
^ in these cases the employees have a basis to pursue a reverse suit, termination for the employer’s misconduct.&quot;

You bring up a very important point here.  It is imperative that employers COMMUNICATE with employees who bring up concerns regarding safety or misconduct.  It is good to do this both verbally and in writing.  

For example, the worker in a food pantry has concerns about donated products past their &quot;best if used by&quot; date and reports it to a supervisor.  It is important to &#039;thank&quot; the employee for the report and to communicate that the &quot;best if used by date&quot; is not the same as the &quot;end of shelf life date.&quot;  If the supervisor is going to investigate the concern, they should communicate this to the employee and follow up when the investigation is complete.     

For example, an employee in a restaurant operation finds a dead cockroach at work and reports it to their supervisor.  It is important that the supervisor &quot;thank&quot; the worker for the report AND communicate what steps have and will be done for pest control.

If the employer fails to do this, the employee can get the impression that the &quot;employer doesn&#039;t care&quot; or &quot;ignores&quot; problems and complain outside the agency to get help.  If the employer does communicate to the employee and the employee still characterizes the employer as &quot;not caring&quot; or &quot;ignoring the problem&quot; the credibility of this employee will be shot and they could be held responsible for their actions if it harms the company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To John:</p>
<p>&#8220;And the employer is really screwed if they spoke truth, such as:<br />
. my boss told me to use the expired mayonnaise anyways<br />
. my boss ignores the cockroaches.<br />
^ in these cases the employees have a basis to pursue a reverse suit, termination for the employer’s misconduct.&#8221;</p>
<p>You bring up a very important point here.  It is imperative that employers COMMUNICATE with employees who bring up concerns regarding safety or misconduct.  It is good to do this both verbally and in writing.  </p>
<p>For example, the worker in a food pantry has concerns about donated products past their &#8220;best if used by&#8221; date and reports it to a supervisor.  It is important to &#8216;thank&#8221; the employee for the report and to communicate that the &#8220;best if used by date&#8221; is not the same as the &#8220;end of shelf life date.&#8221;  If the supervisor is going to investigate the concern, they should communicate this to the employee and follow up when the investigation is complete.     </p>
<p>For example, an employee in a restaurant operation finds a dead cockroach at work and reports it to their supervisor.  It is important that the supervisor &#8220;thank&#8221; the worker for the report AND communicate what steps have and will be done for pest control.</p>
<p>If the employer fails to do this, the employee can get the impression that the &#8220;employer doesn&#8217;t care&#8221; or &#8220;ignores&#8221; problems and complain outside the agency to get help.  If the employer does communicate to the employee and the employee still characterizes the employer as &#8220;not caring&#8221; or &#8220;ignoring the problem&#8221; the credibility of this employee will be shot and they could be held responsible for their actions if it harms the company.</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11605</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 17:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11605</guid>
		<description>The employer can likely only win if it&#039;s based on defamation/slander  -- primarily, flat out lies.
The employer can do nothing if they merely opinions, like:
. my boss is a dumb a**
. I hate that restaurant
. The customers suck
^ in this case the employer can fire them... BUT if it was said off hours and in a private setting, as theirs was in a &quot;you must LOGIN to read this&quot; environment (meaning, NOT PUBLIC), then the employer is going to have a HARD time not suffering wrongful termination.
That would be like me suing my boss because I overheard him at a football game saying I am annoying, claiming he harasses me or demeans me... but it didn&#039;t happen AT work.  I&#039;d have to prove his harassment or unequal treatment at work.  Outside of work, it&#039;s personal.

And the employer is really screwed if they spoke truth, such as:
. my boss told me to use the expired mayonnaise anyways
. my boss ignores the cockroaches.
^ in these cases the employees have a basis to pursue a reverse suit, termination for the employer&#039;s misconduct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The employer can likely only win if it&#8217;s based on defamation/slander  &#8212; primarily, flat out lies.<br />
The employer can do nothing if they merely opinions, like:<br />
. my boss is a dumb a**<br />
. I hate that restaurant<br />
. The customers suck<br />
^ in this case the employer can fire them&#8230; BUT if it was said off hours and in a private setting, as theirs was in a &#8220;you must LOGIN to read this&#8221; environment (meaning, NOT PUBLIC), then the employer is going to have a HARD time not suffering wrongful termination.<br />
That would be like me suing my boss because I overheard him at a football game saying I am annoying, claiming he harasses me or demeans me&#8230; but it didn&#8217;t happen AT work.  I&#8217;d have to prove his harassment or unequal treatment at work.  Outside of work, it&#8217;s personal.</p>
<p>And the employer is really screwed if they spoke truth, such as:<br />
. my boss told me to use the expired mayonnaise anyways<br />
. my boss ignores the cockroaches.<br />
^ in these cases the employees have a basis to pursue a reverse suit, termination for the employer&#8217;s misconduct.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Wiley</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11588</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Wiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 14:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11588</guid>
		<description>MarieS,


This isn&#039;t the same as venting to a spouse. Like you, I don&#039;t agree with firing someone for bad- mouthing the company. As an employer, you need to engage this person or group of people to sort out the issue(s) if possible so that everyone can move forward. However, if the behavior persists, then stronger action is needed up to and including termination. 

To create a site to post derogatory comments is akin to emailing or blogging about an employer, a company or a person. The person or people doing it should be made aware that if the target of the site files a complaint about harassment, the employer is obligated to act on it. Their site will become fair game in a court of law just like emails. So in my view, by doing this, the creator of the site is not only exposing the company to litigation, but also themselves.

If a person doesn&#039;t have something good to say, you cna still voice your opinion but don&#039;t put it in writing or in cyberspace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MarieS,</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t the same as venting to a spouse. Like you, I don&#8217;t agree with firing someone for bad- mouthing the company. As an employer, you need to engage this person or group of people to sort out the issue(s) if possible so that everyone can move forward. However, if the behavior persists, then stronger action is needed up to and including termination. </p>
<p>To create a site to post derogatory comments is akin to emailing or blogging about an employer, a company or a person. The person or people doing it should be made aware that if the target of the site files a complaint about harassment, the employer is obligated to act on it. Their site will become fair game in a court of law just like emails. So in my view, by doing this, the creator of the site is not only exposing the company to litigation, but also themselves.</p>
<p>If a person doesn&#8217;t have something good to say, you cna still voice your opinion but don&#8217;t put it in writing or in cyberspace.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa M.</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11519</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 21:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11519</guid>
		<description>HRinIA, 
You nailed that part directly.  An employee who trashes their former employers will one day find some reason to start trashing their current one.  There are many who just like to gripe, period.  There are so many levels to this issue from freedom of speech to privacy issues between companies, employees, clients and even vendors.  What if, like hc101 mentioned, the blogger gave just enough information to violate the privacy of a client or vendor?

I would personally never pay attention to employee rantings about their employer simply because most of it is just pap, venting of emotions, etc.  As a vendor, I may take disparaging remarks about our service by the employee of those we service a little more seriously.  There could be slander or defamation issues and contract violations if one is in place.  

The darker side of me still feels that if you have all that time to blog nastily, you certainly have time to fill out a resume and find yourself another job if you hate the one you are in so passionately.  Good jobs are at a premium, the smart employee would not chance screwing that up by attempting a little internet whining.  On that same note, companies who go out searching for negative remarks from employees or clients should be aware that odds are, they will find more than they hoped for.

To really bring the message home, the non-comp agreement would have to be more specific and this will certainly make another fine argument for companies to carry some form of Employment Practice Insurance.  Obviously, the phrase “fire at will” has a whole different meaning for some of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HRinIA,<br />
You nailed that part directly.  An employee who trashes their former employers will one day find some reason to start trashing their current one.  There are many who just like to gripe, period.  There are so many levels to this issue from freedom of speech to privacy issues between companies, employees, clients and even vendors.  What if, like hc101 mentioned, the blogger gave just enough information to violate the privacy of a client or vendor?</p>
<p>I would personally never pay attention to employee rantings about their employer simply because most of it is just pap, venting of emotions, etc.  As a vendor, I may take disparaging remarks about our service by the employee of those we service a little more seriously.  There could be slander or defamation issues and contract violations if one is in place.  </p>
<p>The darker side of me still feels that if you have all that time to blog nastily, you certainly have time to fill out a resume and find yourself another job if you hate the one you are in so passionately.  Good jobs are at a premium, the smart employee would not chance screwing that up by attempting a little internet whining.  On that same note, companies who go out searching for negative remarks from employees or clients should be aware that odds are, they will find more than they hoped for.</p>
<p>To really bring the message home, the non-comp agreement would have to be more specific and this will certainly make another fine argument for companies to carry some form of Employment Practice Insurance.  Obviously, the phrase “fire at will” has a whole different meaning for some of us.</p>
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		<title>By: MarieS</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11518</link>
		<dc:creator>MarieS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 21:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11518</guid>
		<description>For those of you who say &#039;fire &#039;em&#039;--how would you see it if this were directed at you--after you vented to a spouse, a friend at a bar and it got back to the boss?  

Not saying that what they did was right or wise, but unless there is something that you can demonstrate that the business was harmed (you lost thecustomer they talked about), this is a futile effort--everyone is unhappy with their job at some point. Most people tell others to vent to get it off their chest.  ARe u going to fire eveyrone who has a bad day?

There has to be a better way to deal with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those of you who say &#8216;fire &#8216;em&#8217;&#8211;how would you see it if this were directed at you&#8211;after you vented to a spouse, a friend at a bar and it got back to the boss?  </p>
<p>Not saying that what they did was right or wise, but unless there is something that you can demonstrate that the business was harmed (you lost thecustomer they talked about), this is a futile effort&#8211;everyone is unhappy with their job at some point. Most people tell others to vent to get it off their chest.  ARe u going to fire eveyrone who has a bad day?</p>
<p>There has to be a better way to deal with this.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11515</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 20:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11515</guid>
		<description>I agree with Rose.  We are an in employment-at-will state and if one of our employees was to do something like this, they would be gone in a heartbeat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Rose.  We are an in employment-at-will state and if one of our employees was to do something like this, they would be gone in a heartbeat.</p>
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		<title>By: mike R</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11514</link>
		<dc:creator>mike R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 20:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11514</guid>
		<description>This was a password protected website.  I liken this to a few co-workers going to a bar or ballgame and &quot;venting&quot; about the job or their boss.  There is a positive side, because these aren&#039;t the individuals you find in the news after they have come to their workplace armed and distraught.  

However, sometimes someone overhears a conversation and calls the boss.  It might be a passerby, it might be an employee wanting to score points.  In this case, someone might provide the boss the password to access the site.  The boss needs to address what was heard or read and the context.

I agree that for legal action to take place, the company has to suffer damage and the information has to be untrue.  As an employer in an &quot;at will&quot; state, having an employee who&#039;s behavior is detrimental to the morale and productivity of the workforce is enough to take disciplinary action up to and including termination.  I see such situations as opportunities, though.  If there is a problem for my employees, I want to see what can be done to fix it.   Usually it just takes a little communication and some realistic expectations.

Finally, with our newest &quot;techno&quot; generation entering the workforce, they spend more time texting, blogging, and twittering than sitting around drinking beer, discussing work, and playing pool.  They aren&#039;t going to stop just because an employer doesn&#039;t like it.  They generally will respect and respond positively to a company/or boss that works constructively to resolve problems.   They need to learn what I learned many years ago...what is said in anger (or frustration) cannot be taken back.  It doesn&#039;t matter if it is said face to face, on the phone, over a radio, in a letter, in a blog, in a text message, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a password protected website.  I liken this to a few co-workers going to a bar or ballgame and &#8220;venting&#8221; about the job or their boss.  There is a positive side, because these aren&#8217;t the individuals you find in the news after they have come to their workplace armed and distraught.  </p>
<p>However, sometimes someone overhears a conversation and calls the boss.  It might be a passerby, it might be an employee wanting to score points.  In this case, someone might provide the boss the password to access the site.  The boss needs to address what was heard or read and the context.</p>
<p>I agree that for legal action to take place, the company has to suffer damage and the information has to be untrue.  As an employer in an &#8220;at will&#8221; state, having an employee who&#8217;s behavior is detrimental to the morale and productivity of the workforce is enough to take disciplinary action up to and including termination.  I see such situations as opportunities, though.  If there is a problem for my employees, I want to see what can be done to fix it.   Usually it just takes a little communication and some realistic expectations.</p>
<p>Finally, with our newest &#8220;techno&#8221; generation entering the workforce, they spend more time texting, blogging, and twittering than sitting around drinking beer, discussing work, and playing pool.  They aren&#8217;t going to stop just because an employer doesn&#8217;t like it.  They generally will respect and respond positively to a company/or boss that works constructively to resolve problems.   They need to learn what I learned many years ago&#8230;what is said in anger (or frustration) cannot be taken back.  It doesn&#8217;t matter if it is said face to face, on the phone, over a radio, in a letter, in a blog, in a text message, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Joni</title>
		<link>http://www.hrmorning.com/court-to-decide-limits-on-employee-web-privacy/comment-page-1/#comment-11512</link>
		<dc:creator>Joni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 20:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hrmorning.com/?p=1726#comment-11512</guid>
		<description>To Mar,

Don&#039;t be a jerk. Everyone who read NJ&#039;s post knew what he/she meant and knew it was just a typo. People like you drive me crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Mar,</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be a jerk. Everyone who read NJ&#8217;s post knew what he/she meant and knew it was just a typo. People like you drive me crazy.</p>
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