I’m not sure the Europeans have the handle on the solution either. They have not been able to control the riding cost of health care any better than we. They do ration meds, doctors and services (much like Medicare) to try to control costs and their outcomes on many diseases is not as favorable as the US or significantly better. A lot of the data from other countries is flawed in the sense that some do not report the full cost of the providers salaries, capital improvements, etc… In the US, we rely on the latest technologies and they are expensive but not always the most effective.

Perhaps a simple law that does not permit exclusions and ratings based on large pools of people rather than individuals would offer a solution without the obvious problems of a large, Medicare like system.

Thank you for your past sacrifices and for your current wisdom in seeing the issue as a whole.

It is not until we, ourselves are afflicted that we come to realize how woefully inadequate and inefficient the current system is. That affliction may be due to our own healthcare concerns or for those of a family member. And we will all have to face healthcare concerns at one time or another and the longer we live, the sooner that will likely be. When you see grandparents lose their homes they have worked for all their lives and file bankrupcy due to a medical issue. When you see families pooling resources and drowning financially to help cover healthcare costs for an ailing family member, it becomes clear that what we got costs too much and is not working.

As a disabled american veteran, I know how the system fails to work. As a professional working in social services, I see people choosing incarceration over freedom because they have a higher standard of living while in custody (shelter, nutritious meals, healthcare, access to mental health and educational services, etc.)

Those in authority will point to costs and change the discussion to “insurance” and “medicare/medicaid,” but they ignore systems in other countries that provide better overall care at a cheaper cost. Businesses are not burdened with providing healthcare and the costs are spread out from cradle to grave. And people are less stressed because they know their basic needs will be met.

Unfortunately, so long as the insurance companies can limit their pool to the young and healthy and leave the elderly and infirmed to the government, the system will remain inefficient and costly.

I did a post on rugged individualism vs rugged entitlement a while ago – I believe there are too many people who are are passengers – just riding, and not enough people contributing.

Yes Jagger, you have brought up the issue of moral imperatives before. I believe in freedom, which I have stated before is not having your hand in my pocket. I should be free to insure myself or not and be willing to pay for it – it should not be mandated by the government either to me or to my employer. If I choose to contribute to the plight of others (which I have done generously over the years), it should be my choice, not my governments in terms of forced taxes. Unfortunately in this country we have “We the people” and “We the government” – they are mutually exclusive and they don’t trust each other.

There is a difference between justice and fairness. Justice is not always fair, and “Fair” is not always Just. Justice is formulated from Law, Fairness is formulated from feelings. THe law remains constant until it is changed, feelings are not a constant, ever. They can change in a whim.

I do believe the problems in America, right now, did not start Yesterday (meaning during the last few administrations) They started a long time ago. They are just coming to pass right now.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=the+money+masters+video&total=364&start

I also, identified that statement “moral imperative” as a talking point sometime in the past. And how can health not be considered a personal choice? And as far as the “free market” taking everything, making them dependent????? And what is our government trying to do?

The challenge for democracy is to establish justice and fairness. Our country is founded on the concept that the government is “We the people.” This requires everyone to approach these problems in good faith with an attempt to see the problems from all sides and agree to a fair resolution. I don’t know if there are enough people in the country that are able to put aside their biases and self interests to accomplish this. Everyone seems to be afraid of what they might lose or what it may cost them. The days of “don’t ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country” has been replaced by a sense of entitlement, fear, and greed. If that is the case, then our republic will collapse. It seems that the failings of the economic markets, banks, and businesses is just the beginning.

“Health” is not a personal choice, but a moral imperative. “Healthcare” has no business in the free market, because a moral person will pay any price to live and the market will then take everything making them dependent (in servitude) on the system. That is why you cannot sell your organs or compromise your health for financial gain in medical studies.

That being said, the government from its inception (see our preamble to the constitution) is not about equal opportunity, but “justice, insuring demostic tranquility (maybe that is where they got into the healthcare insurance business), provide for the common defence, and promoting the general welfare.” So the government MUST ensure justice (fairness) when determining who lives or dies (has access to healthcare). When a person becomes ill or disabled, it affects everyone around them, as well, so government has a role to insure domestic tranquility and providing for the general welfare.